Hey NO EXCUSES -
Looks like you really do make excuses -- at least for old JW's.
Your eclesiastical yet ever-condescending attitude is humerous, oh holy one. To quote that great sage, Bugs Bunny, let me exclaim, "It is to laugh."
Funny, but I don't remember asking your permission to voice my opinions nor do I really care what you think of those opinions. If you want to forgive the old man and have warm fuzzy feelings, knock yourself out. Oh, and yes, I know you don't give a damn if I dislike or disagree with your opinions either. Guess I'll just have to suck it up and get over it. Ah, well, life's a bitch sometimes...
In answer to your ad hominem attack, YES, I did read the article and YES I will condemn him, "victim" or not. If the world used your reasoning we would be forgiving SS death camp guards because they were, in reality, thoroughly brainwashed by the cult of Nazism. They were "victims" too, after all. I'm not kidding here -- Nazis were victomized just like you and me. Maybe, when we were out knocking on doors every Saturday and being good little stooges we weren't gassing anyone or lining up people for a firing squad. We were, however, supporting an organization that is responsible for the death of millions, which made us (and all JW's) defacto culprits. But I'm glad you have it in your heart to forgive those hapless JW's because, god knows, I sure as hell don't. But then, you've always been straining for sainthood, haven't you? -- while I've wasted my time at the devil's table. Lord have mercy.
I knew the WT was refuse at the early age of 15. I didnt' have to spend my lifetime altering a theology (like our 85 yr. old friend) to fit my needs just to keep a support group around me. I made my decision, knowing I would face shunning from all of my family, and I had the integrity (and balls) to get out. Period. I did not support the LIE and I did not put money into the hands of child rapists, child molesters, family demolition experts, and exponents of insanity. I did not aid the benevolant gang of shunners, nor did I support the anti-blood murder Gulag. In short, I washed my hands of the blood I had so eagerly thrust them into as a child. Oh, and I'm glad you have it in you to forgive me of my former sins, Oh Mighty Lord of Hosts No-Excuse. God knows I couldnt sleep tonight if I didn't have you as my contritionist. Praise be.
If you think my reasoning is harsh I suggest you climb down from your celestial perch and visit a family who has lost someone because the boys in Brooklyn convinced the "victim" to refuse blood. If you think my reasoning is harsh I suggest you take the heavenly elevator downtown to visit some of the ex-JW parents who literally have lost their children (and grandchildren) because the boys in Brooklyn convinced the kids to shun mom and dad. If you think my reasoning is harsh I suggest you stop polishing your halo long enough to visit a few victims of JW molestation and child abuse -- true victims -- and maybe chat with their parents a bit too (while you're at it, why not tell those parents how they too should forgive the JW's that molested their kids AND the rank and file JW support group. Share with them your theology of hapless victimhood and absolution. I'm sure they'll welcome your ideas with open arms.).
You see, I believe that if you support an evil organization you are evil too. Even if you are an 85 year old man. But then, what do I know? A sinner like me is too unworthy to see the wisdom of your most holy and canonical utterances. Will you find it in your heart to grant me absolution? What do you say my great Messiah-No Excuses? Forgive me? Please? Hmmm?
Devils Advocate
JoinedPosts by Devils Advocate
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36
Disfellowshipped at 85!
by Voyager inhttp://members.aol.com:/wtstudies/wts1/wts1.htm .
backup thread:.
http://members.aol.com:/wtstudies/wts1/wts1.htm .
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Devils Advocate
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36
Disfellowshipped at 85!
by Voyager inhttp://members.aol.com:/wtstudies/wts1/wts1.htm .
backup thread:.
http://members.aol.com:/wtstudies/wts1/wts1.htm .
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Devils Advocate
I don't mean to be heartless about this old fellow -- well, strike that -- yes I do!
Forgive me, but how many families has this old geezer helped destroy over ther last 50 years by preaching JW dogma? How many child molesters has he set in motion by supporting a corrupt organization? How many people have had to face mental illness because of his "bringing them into the "truth"? How many shunnings have been iniated because of his blind faith in a man-made book publishing cult?
My grandmother brought the LIE into my family. It literally tore my family apart at the seams. I left the LIE at age 15 and have faced shunning from my family ever since. It's not a stretch for me to say that, as a result, I HATE everything JW and loath everything Watchtower.
Perhaps the old boy got what was coming to him... -
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How do you handle JWs interacting with your children?
by Nosferatu inthis has been on my mind lately.
i'll probably end up having kids in the near future, and i would not want my mother preaching to my children.. so, i must ask, how do you handle your jw relatives who try to preach to your children?
how do you deal with a "gift" like my book of bs?
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Devils Advocate
My mother tried influencing my daughters when they were little (under age 7). They are now 13 and 11. I told my mother to stop reading the Lie-Society's literature to my girls and she flat out refused. So I told her if she didn't stop she wouldn't see my girls again and I would file child abuse charges against her as well as a civil suit if necessary.
My oldest brother, who was a raving JW lunatic MS at the time, had just had his daughter taken from him by family services for punishing her a tad more than logic called for -- all in the name of Jerkovah -- and that experience scared my mother badly. All I had to say to her was "family services" and "lawsuit" and she quit preaching overnight. -
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2am visit from elders. Car chase!
by kwintestal into get a break from my jw parents when i was 17 (i'm 25 now) i took an apartment of my own.
i was working full time and going to school.
a busy schedule that allowed me to miss meetings without them constantly hounding me.
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Devils Advocate
My disfellowshipping came months later which is a story in itself as my apartment at the time was illegally entered and searched for evidence against me. I'll tell that one another time! You've piqued our interest! Tell us about the illegal entry and search!
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favourite games to play as a child during boring meetings
by Surfacing inmy parents were both very strict, and i wasn't allowed any toys at the hall.
my rations included a copy of my book of bible stories, and a pen and note pad.
my parents were strict to the point of not allowing me to draw pictures, i had to "take notes".
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Devils Advocate
When the singing/intermission began, a buddy and I used to sing the wrong verses. If the congregation was singing verse 1 we'd be singing verse 2, then when they went to verse 2 he and I would sing verse 1.
One time the "head" elder's two daughters were sitting behind us. They caught on to what we were up to and giggled -- which prompted my buddy and I to sing even louder. I don't know if anyone else caught on but it was our way of rebelling and poking a little fun. -
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A question for those recruited as adults
by kls ini remember who my husband was before we were recruited,you know what i mean, his humor,his daringness.
i am sure i changed also but only to an extent because i had to many doughts.
as i quickley ran from the cult ,i could sit back and see the person that i married into the person that the watchtower created.
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Devils Advocate
I dont remember my parents before being JW's but I do know that before I was born (1965) my parents were not JW's. I also vaguely remember when I was 3 yrs old some JW had an in-home "bible" study with my parents which apparrantly started the ball to rolling. I left the cult when I was 15.
I am a Freemason and a few months ago one of the members of our Blue Lodge asked how my parents were. My parents are retired school teachers. He told me stories of how, before I was born, my parents were active socially and well liked. He had been a student of both my mom and dad years before I was born. He told me that when he was a kid he would run into my mom and dad out shopping on the weekends and they would invite him to a soda at the local drugstore (late 1950's mind you). From what my fellow lodge brother related, this was a pretty regular occurrance with my parents -- always inviting friends, students, student's parents, etc. out for a soda at the drugstore. My mom used to take the neighbor kids sledding when it snowed and school was called off, and my dad coached softball, basketball, and volleyball -- both school teams and summer leagues -- and even played ball with my mom on a husband & wife softball team.
Of course, all I could say was, "are you sure it's MY mom and dad you're talking about?" Since I was raised a JW I NEVER saw my parents do anything remotely "normal." In fact, growing up, I got the impression that all they lived for was to hate anyone outside the cult (albeit quietly and words spoken behind the worldly folk's backs) and the "soon to come" kingdom. I wish I could have seen my folks when they were normal and fun and not blinded by hate. -
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Follow-up to "Chilling Experiance"
by Carmel ini was taken by talltexan's story about the little girl that died of burns.
as i responed to him, i've had two such phenomena and feel perfectly at ease with them.
one is interesting in that it took many years to unfold.
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Devils Advocate
Did you ever think she could possibly be your "spirit guide" -- for lack of a better phrase? You know, a spirit who watches and guides and maybe warns you (quietly of course)every so often? Or perhaps she is watching over your wife? I know there's no way of proving what I'm suggesting but many spiritualists believe in just this idea.
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Why Does God Permit Wickedness?
by undercover inhow many times did we, as jws, see that question?
how many times did we read or recite the same ole bs about allowing wicked people to try to rule themselves and failing?
god's soverienty was brought into question and now he'll give satan and man so many thousand years to give it a try.
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Devils Advocate
Growing up as a JW I was often told that the moral of Job was that the devil threw down the kid gloves and challenged god by basically saying that if man didn't have a reward -- as in Job's case,wealth, then man wouldn't love and worship god. Now, considering that the bible god promises a paradise earth and physical immortality as a reward (in the case of the JW's) or a heavan for orthadox christians)hasnt the devil already won the argument?
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Kingdom Hall For Sale
by hubert in.
while driving thru town the other day, i noticed a kingdom hall with a "for sale" sign in front of it.
i am wondering...... what are your views on why they would sell it?
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Devils Advocate
The KH I grew up in (and left) was sold a few years ago for a newer, bigger, more elaborate cathedral -- er, hall to be built. The old KH was sold to a man who turned it into cigarette and liquor store. When I drive by I get a chuckle thinking about all those sermons against tobacco and the elders sell out to a smoke shop. All that preaching went up in smoke I suppose.
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Who counts as a 'Believer'?
by BluesBrother inthis struck me as new departure in the july 1st watchtower - "questions from readers - " at 2 corinthians 6.14 to whom is paul referring when he uses the term 'unbelievers'?.
compare this with - .
*** w89 11/1 p. 19 do not yoke yourselves with unbelievers ***.
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Devils Advocate
I wonder how the WT would classify the sinner who died alongside Christ (who was promised salvation for believing)? He wasn't baptised I recall...